BiAS 2: Celestion Modern IRs and some other quick feedback

  • @pipelineaudio I would guess he is just referring to Bias 2 amp import.

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  • Mark Meyers, I think this is a preference issue. I personally think the BA2 sound is MUCH better than BA1. Everybody has a different taste in tone. I thought that BA1's tones out of the box were not great where I feel that BA2's sounds are much more real sounding and don't require that much tweaking. This is not to disrespect your feeling on the sound either but I don't see the sound of the updated BIAS Amp as a problem that needs fixing. I am all for improvement though and I am waiting for the BIAS FX compatibility issues to be resolved.

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  • @mark-meyers said in BiAS 2: Celestion Modern IRs and some other quick feedback:

    I can certainly dig that! And I agree with your philosophy - however, in this case, it's not a personal preference thing. There's a whole thread on this. This topic is mentioned in several threads. It's not a coincidence. There is something very, very wrong with BIAS 2. I've had BA 1 Pro desktop for years and know inside and out.
    When you load both, simultaneously, and load the exact same stock amp, without adjusting a thing, you'll hear (and feel) exactly what everybody is talking about. Honestly? I got the demo and thought it sounded great! UNTIL I A/B'd IT AGAINST BA 1. I highly encourage you to try both. Thanks for the feedback! ;)

    My feel about that is, that some amps are improved by the tone-engine update and others are not. So (if possible) a simple switch to choose the engine version would do the job for all amps.

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  • A2

    The good news is that at least third party cabs (if as you noticed, you rename them all them all so that the name is short enough to fit) do null against tested third party Ir loaders

  • I'm a little skeptical about the extremity of the change you seem to be hearing -- is it really that bad/different or is your brain tricking you into thinking it is?

    Human ears work in funny ways -- if you play with an amp preset that has a lot of high-frequency content (as BA1 did), then immediately switch to one that has a more neutral tone (as BA2 might), then it will alter how you perceive the sound and you will feel that the more neutral sound actually has a much more severe rolloff effect, due to your brain trying to compensate for what it's been hearing. I deal with this effect regularly, as a preset I jam around on for hours one day suddenly sounds bizarre and wrong when I use it again the next day immediately after a different preset with very different frequency content. (For the record, I use the LSR305s too, through a Scarlett 18i20)

    From what I can tell from forum posts, they did some adjustments between BA1 and BA2 to address the big complaints people had previously about BA1's sound, that it was too harsh and 'digital' sounding or what-the-heck-ever. True enough, if you compare BA1's cab sims against IRs (in my case I compared against Celestion's V30 IRs), you find that the IRs sound less crisp and more constrained/muffled/muddy -- more accurately though, the cab sims have unnaturally high amounts of extraneous high-frequency content. If you take a break for a few hours and try the IRs again though, suddenly they sound just fine.

    I might try removing everything from the signal chains in BA1/BA2 and sending some white noise through just the cab sims and seeing what effects I end up with.

    Realistically though, the real test would not be against BA1, but against actual amps. I'd be curious to find out which version comes closer.

  • After using it for some time, I think my main issue wrt to the tonality is this:

    1. The default cabs have a severe high end roll off. Every single one of them. You can hear this immediately by A/Bing against the built-in Celestion IRs or any good third party IR really. It is a rip-your-head off difference. Not subtle.

    2. (See my other post about this) Tone match has been limited in 2 in such a way that this roll off limits the value of amp match (the big ticket feature of BA2).
      a. It does not allow any other cab other than stock cabs because it always selects the same amp and cab for each category and this is always a stock cab
      b. You cannot disable the cab during tone match anymore. (Thus you cannot amp match a preamp).

    Because of 1 any amp customized using a stock cab sounds 'wrong' with anything but another stock cab (IMHO). As soon as I switch to the Celestions everything I immediately have to start moving the mics and rolling off all the highs in the ParaEQ.

    Because of 1 and 2 any amp match is stuck with the cab that PG picks as default because the Amp Match EQ is going to add a ludicrous amount of high end to the match to bring the high end back in from PG's crazy roll off.

    I like to create Amp matches that match the amp but are also flexible enough to be paired with a different IR. If you Amp match with the default cabs and then try to experiment with the matched amp and different IRs. It creates a mess because you will immediately get this 'whistling' high end tone almost like a microphonic pup because the AM EQ has soo much high end.

    There are other downsides too (as per my other topic on AM). ALL of which would be avoidable

    This means any time you amp match and then try to switch cabs to an IR you get a massive high end spike
    The default cabs

    I CAN get good sounds with BA2 but it could be so much easier with a bit more tweaking and AM needs to be unbroken. I am using more Parametric EQ in BA2 right now (which is really excellent thankfully! :wink: )

    I would be really annoyed if I had the head because all those Amp matches with those inaccurate cab models are probably not going to work well if you run the head into a traditional guitar cab and do not EQ it a bunch.

    Any way it is all opinion. I am having fun with 2, but I think there are some musts that need to happen quickly so that people who are not already big PG fans like I am do not get turned off.

    I complain because I care. :wink:

  • interesting! admittedly I've been primarily using IRs with BIAS and only briefly poked around with the built-in cabs; I'll have to take a more in-depth look at them when I have the chance. I heard they adjusted the high-end to address the BA1 complaints, but that sounds like a pretty extreme overcompensation.

  • Well I'll be damned! I have no idea what happened, but I opened them both an hour later in my DAW and they basically sounded the same! Problem completely disappeared! So weird. The only thing I did find is if you find some models that sound dark, and all the high end is rolled off, etc. It's the mic placement(!) Even though they look the same, they're not. So say, a 4X12 Greenback pointed at the cone, closer to the edge in BA 1? You'd have to move the mic closer (if not dead hovering) to the cap for them to sound the same, and usually a bit of distance tweaking. But that is it. Zero EQ changes. I check and it's now working in both standalone and in my DAW with no issue. Both platforms *passed the A/B test(!!!)
    Now I gotta amend every post. Ugh. So glad I figured it out though, I think..
    Haha, well, it has been an adventure in troubleshooting. Thanks for everyone's input!


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  • @elric Joe is a good man!

  • @mark-meyers Agreed @Joe-Kuo and @Felix are great. I love Bias too. Honestly if they just fix the button on amp match to allow me to use the current amp and settings; I think the stock cab thing is a non issue and can be written off as just a matter of taste because you are no longer locked in.