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BiAS 2: Celestion Modern IRs and some other quick feedback



  • This is some quick feedback on things that IMHO need looked at ASAP. May provide a full review here and on the Gear Page later:

    1. Celestion Modern: You absolutely need to send a code to your Elite pre-order customers for this. This was too expensive an upgrade to hold back some content for the people who went full "in" on the new version. AFAIK, no mention was ever made (I certainly didn't see it) of the Elite pack having only some of the content of the initial release. The Celestion deal was a huge part of this upgrade and only having this partially available really makes me question my decision to upgrade.

    2. The User IR import is a welcome update, BUT it quickly becomes unusable without some way for the user to create folders or another level of hierarchy. I literally have 100s of thousands of IRs. A square grid with one block for every wav is simply unusable. It is actually WORSE than the file selector before in practice. I imported three Cabs (2 from 3 Sigma one from Celestion) and that was it, it simply became unnavigable. Trying to add 20-30 cabs to this structure and I would never be able to do anything with it.

    3. Need to be able to delete IRs. I could do it by finding them on the disk but they need a trash can icon.

    4. The high end roll-off in the PG cabs is completely out of control. I know you were criticized for some of the frequency response issues that resulted in the Dynamic tone feature but the PG cabs are now subject to a COMPLETELY ham-fisted rolled off. Doing a 1:1 of B1 vs B2 the roll off in B2 is unnatural and simply sounds terrible on anything with crunch or higher levels of gain. I prefer Bias 1 for these sounds at this point.

    5. Speaking of Gain, this may be a side effect of the roll off but the Metal and Insane amps seem Very tame compared to B1. I cannot get usable high gain sounds on any amps without putting a Tube Screamer plugin in front. Again A/Bd vs B1 and this is immediately obvious. I have a real 6505 series amp to compare against and for Metal, I run the preamp gain @4.5 on that amp and it can do it with no boost. Your super high gain amps 5153, Power Place, VH4, etc cannot get convincing gain sounds with gain above 7 and no boost. That is really a step back. IMHO.

    TBH, I don't want this tone engine in my Bias FX presets yet. Hoping you guys are tuned in and trying to get this straight.


  • A2

    I posted this elsewhere, but its some objective evidence, hopefully helpful

    Here's some tested files for the cabs
    Bias Amp 2's treadplate vs Bias Amp 2 running thru Bias Amp 1's Treadplate

    Bias Amp 2 Celestion 4x12 57 vs Celestion's 4x12 57 Balanced impulse (I know we don;t know exactly which impulse they used, but its seemingly irrelevant, you will hear the same character as you do on all the other problem cabs vs the impulses and Bias Amp 1 versions)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ylp3a0xfycaiy3u/BA 2 Treadplate.mp3?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/87cgxmwaq8acqtj/BA2 thru BA1 Treadplate.mp3?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/i7mxhvwahvvb2ni/V30 cab.mp3?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qd5cgi7hqq3wf9z/V30 impulse.mp3?dl=0

    Looking at the frequency response, they seem to be the same cab for the Treadplate, but something funny is happening up high, just as suspected...a LOT of something funny

    Bias Amp 1 Treadplate in red vs Bias Amp 2 Treadplate in blue

    alt text

    Even more interesting, I may have actually picked the same impulse as the cab, they look extremely similar, again, until you get to the high end where there is a lot of monkey business happening. Celestion impulse in red, Celestion cab in blue

    alt text



  • fuck it, ill just stick with bias 1 until i get a hardware unit.


  • A2

    @brian-dress As far as I can tell so far (I'll try some tests to be 100% sure), the IR loader works fine with 44khz impulses. 96khz was not working correctly last time I tried it, and resulted in the same high end roll off you see in the pics.

    If you are using impulses, and have them at or can get them to 44.1khz, you should be fine, this issue seems to only matter for the cabs



  • Yes, the high-mid/high frequency are so cut-off i'm actually using Kazrog's Recabinet in the meantime to get something correct out of it (since i own some Celestion IR). Honestly it sucks for the user that went for the Elite Upgrade at this point.

    Same here for the gain issue and it doesn't seems to be due to the cab because even bypassed using an IR loader, it feels lacking. I'm wondering if it's due to some control such as the dynamic tone (or something else affecting the dynamics of the input signal). Currently, to get sounds "similar" to the B1 presets i need to crank the gain know 1.5-2 steps higher.

    Edit : Have to say the good parts too => You can really feel a difference with the tone engine so i'm currently trying out stuff which crunchy gain settings and overdrive pedals in the meantime.



  • well putting the cabs to the side (Everyone has good IRs and/or another cab system(Two Notes)) what are you guys thinking about the new amp modeling? Is the feel better? More dynamics? Closer to Kemper/Axxe FX?


  • A2

    I see there is a roll-off on the high end compared to Bias Amp1, but is it necessarily a bad thing?
    It's a New release and it's not so strange to me that has a different way to sound as well. Couldn't this be fixed with an EQ if you wish?
    I don't mind how it sounds today, we're still talking about a software and not a real amp afterall...but to me sounds good enough
    I would rather prefer to see B2 eq response compared to the real thing and see how realistic the sounds are in that sense. Even then though, I wouldn't care too much...at the end of the day I want the sound i have in my mind with a good feel.
    If so, I wouldn't care so much if that sound is obtained by a virtual marshall plexi or a peavey bandit and how colse are those virtual amps to the real thing.


  • A2

    @salvatore-di-piazza said in BiAS 2: Celestion Modern IRs and some other quick feedback:

    I see there is a roll-off on the high end compared to Bias Amp1, but is it necessarily a bad thing?

    Its changing things in a way unintended by the user,putting 3+4 in and getting 5 or 9 out.

    It's a New release and it's not so strange to me that has a different way to sound as well. Couldn't this be fixed with an EQ if you wish?

    Maybe or maybe not. If elements and not just frequency are being removed, addign eq will change the tone but won't bring those elements back. For instance, where the 10dB part of the loss happens is right about where your listeners hear where you hit the pick hard vs where you picked the string soft. If you lose that, you can turn it back up, but you'll just have a brighter sound with no idea of your particular dynamic in that frequency range



  • @brian-dress I personally feel like it was a huge step forward. The dynamics of playing are far more authentic and just feel more real. The new bass amps are great as well. I feel and hear the high end roll off too, but it’s so much better than the brittle highs we had in b1. And most of that can be dialed in during post eq. So far the team has been really responsive to feedback so I think issues will be triaged and addressed quickly.



  • @danbieranowski i will definitely have to compare.



  • Interesting topic, I had a few hours to tinker last night with my Elite purchase and I'm feeling pretty good about it. I like the fact that the overall sound is warmer and less harsh in the highs and it "feels" better. I do however understand what people are saying about the roll off in the higher frequencies with the cabs but I'm wondering if (pre-eq) can help as mentioned above? I've got the whole weekend to play around with the plugin so...

    I also agree with the OP in regards to the Modern Vintage celestion pack not being included in the Elite version. I'm curious if those Creamback cabs are possibly brighter...hence the "modern" lingo..?



  • +1 for pipelineaudio The reduction of harsh height for a warmer tone could be offered by a so named EQ-preset (or a global EQ) easily. There is no need to take a whole frequency-range ot of the game :/

    @pipelineaudio said in BiAS 2: Celestion Modern IRs and some other quick feedback:

    If elements and not just frequency are being removed, addign eq will change the tone but won't bring those elements back. For instance, where the 10dB part of the loss happens is right about where your listeners hear where you hit the pick hard vs where you picked the string soft. If you lose that, you can turn it back up, but you'll just have a brighter sound with no idea of your particular dynamic in that frequency range



  • @elric I totally agree with your post. High gain models have a weak overall tone compared to B1. A step in the wrong direction for bias imho.:cry:



  • @ironfede80 Yup. I am hoping to provide PG with some constructive feedback not just rip on things. I have faith that they can get it sorted but they need to know what we are hearing. :wink:


  • A2

    As promised, here's a test of 44k impulses in Bias Amp 2 vs NADIR

    They null. So the IR loader itself in Bias Amp 2 is working as it should, level vs frequency wise....IF its at 44k. At 96 khz, its a much different story, in earlier builds you get the same effect as happens to the onboard cabs of Bias Amp 2. I said it before and I'll say it again, I won't be at all surprised if this is the anti-aliasing filter or SRC going weird here, its certainly happened many times before

    So it looks like 44khz IR's are fine in the IR loader, here is NADIR vs Bias

    alt text

    And now, apparently, the 96khz issue has been fixed. Here is a test of two 96khz files, Bias Amp 2 IR loader vs NADIR. Interestingly, it looks like the NAIDR filter length may not be long enough and Bias' might actually be more correct! While identical at 44k, they are slightly different at 96, but not that wet blanket over the speaker sound it had before or in the cab module itself which is still there

    alt text



  • @pipelineaudio : yes, as I mentioned in the other thread, clearer sounding. But also farther away in the space. I'm about to do a video of a few tracks between build 1 FX/AMP, 2v3 AMP, and 2v6 AMP, that portray the growing distance in the ambient space. Pushing the mic close makes it bigger and louder while flubbing it out with bass, the treble nearly disappearing. This is across the board, though, and I like the Hwy 4123 cab now. Always wanted to, as I could hear the basic low-mid meatiness, but it was so blankety sounding. Still is some, even with a 57, but more usable.

    Still, I miss the 'intimacy' of build 1.



  • This was just posted over at TGP forum from a PG Rep:

    **Sorry, Modern Vintage pack is currently not available for purchase nor included in Elite license. This expansion pack is also authorized by Celestion, which means there's authorization fee involved in its pricing. Plus, there are still some technical details our engineers are working on. For example, these cabs need some love to work in BIAS FX since we basically re-framed the whole CAB and microphone mixers. Currently, we're at the last stage of working on the new version of BIAS FX to make sure it's 100% Celestion-compatible.

    That being said, as a power user myself, I would be extremely disappointed to see its absence for all current users too. Please allow me some time to collect the feedback and work on it. Meanwhile, I must ask for your patience and understanding before I have following news to share.**



  • Here's the link to that thread:

    TGP Bias Amp 2 Thread



  • @Anthony-Newcomb
    Yeah, saw that too. Appreciate @Joe-Kuo checking in and looking out for us. I'm sure he'll at least have the engineering team review some of the inputs that PG fans have.

    I'm getting some good sounds with Boosted amps using Mercuriall's Tubescreamer plugin. But am hoping for some adjustments on the preamp gain aggression.

    The stock cabs darkness is apparent if you just A/B against any of the Celestion stuff, it is not world ending as the Celestion stuff is great and there is always IR loading, etc.

    The IR management needs some kind of sub-menu thing though. It is already unmanageable for me. I expect they will continue to work on and tweak the interface after the core tone elements are there; so I am hopeful. Even user defined folders/categories beyond 'factory' and 'user' would help.

    I do think clarity has improved and I also think the input feels less compressed.

    I am sure they are also stomping bugs. Plus: NAMM.

    Like any big release no matter how hard you test it once in the wild, you will find an initial spate of problems that require immediate attention.


  • A2

    @anthony-newcomb said in BiAS 2: Celestion Modern IRs and some other quick feedback:

    **Sorry, Modern Vintage pack is currently not available for purchase nor included in Elite license. This expansion pack is also authorized by Celestion, which means there's authorization fee involved in its pricing. Plus, there are still some technical details our engineers are working on. For example, these cabs need some love to work in BIAS FX since we basically re-framed the whole CAB and microphone mixers. Currently, we're at the last stage of working on the new version of BIAS FX to make sure it's 100% Celestion-compatible.

    That being said, as a power user myself, I would be extremely disappointed to see its absence for all current users too. Please allow me some time to collect the feedback and work on it. Meanwhile, I must ask for your patience and understanding before I have following news to share.**

    Man I hope like hell they aren't even anywhere NEAR the last stages of a new version of Bias FX without some serious, serious end user feedback.