Does anybody gig with BIAS FX on iPad?
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@pipelineaudio hey bud. Just saw this video for a new mobile interface. Wondering your thoughts on this and if it would be a performance upgrade from the behringer I have now
Youtube Video -
I cant seem to find asio drivers for it, or even a home page for it...I don't know
The two things that really matter to me on these sorts of 2 channel devices are round trip latency, and whether they can handle a guitar input with active pickups.
If they don't have at least two discrete outputs I dont even look at them....Looks like this one has a cool complement of outputs, but its weird not finding a page for them
I'm betting that zoom u24 smokes just about anything in that market right now aside from the uac-2 and the rme stuff
I'll tell you what I REALLY like about this and that's the volume knob sitting right on the top!
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@pipelineaudio yeah it looks cool to be sure. I just can’t shake the feeling that I have a buzz that is getting introduced somehow by the interface. I have the behringer 204hd and it is supposedly nice but I can’t help feeling I can do better.
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@pipelineaudio wow the zoom looks really nice. I wonder how it stacks with the behringer
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I’ve been using my iPad for touring for some time now and have ended up happy, after a long period of experiment, with an iPad Pro, a Focusrite iTrack Dock and a Softstep 2 controller. I was using an ipad Air 2 for a while but found the latency a bit much so upgraded to the Pro and now don’t notice the latency at all, ( 4ms)
The iTrack Dock has a couple of excellent preamps in it and can supply phantom if necessary plus - and this is actually quite a big plus, the dock charges the ipad at the same time as you’re using it on stage. The Softstep controller is extremely flexible and you can program the keys to do anything which you can imagine.
Ive been using Bias Amp throughout the process and have now seemed to settle on just one amp model which I use exclusively - it just feels more real to have a solid identity in my sound and having just one amp helps with that.. I have also used Bias Pedal to develope dirt, delay and modulation pedals which are absolutely tailored to my needs, so what started out as a bewildering degree of choice in my modelled hardware has gradually focused down to what is, for me, the perfect pedal board and amp setup. Of course the tweaking never really stops, though. -
@garrybanjo Thanks a lot - good info. I will save up for iPad Pro - was thinking about Air for a while but yeah - latency is a killer. As far as interface I will probably go for Zoom U44 - it seems very appealing to have universal PC/iOS interface and ability to run 4 mics if so desired. Plus I am a bit worried about dock-type of interfaces - years ago I had Alesis one - it was expensive and it stopped working after Apple released OS update and Alesis could not follow with driver update. It became a paper-weight - with a huge group of very angry users.
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The speed of the ipad is going to affect only the lowest number of buffers that particular driver can handle. For my testing, the air2 could handle the lowest any of the interfaces I tested with it could go, but I gotta warn you
After some testing, good luck getting anything lower than a 13msec round trip latency on any ipad (it won't be the ipad that stops you, but the OS and drivers). Of course, 14msec is fine, no matter how much the Marketing Machine tries to claim otherwise, for most people.
"The interfaces tried were the StudioJack Mini from Sonoma Wire Works which I will abbreviate as "SJM" and the iRig HD2 from IK Multimedia, which I will abbreviate to "HD2"
I started with Audiobus 3 with system audio input as input and system audio output as output, to establish, what as far as I can tell would be a baseline round trip latency measurment
Audiobus 3 64 frames: SJM 14, HD2 16
Audiobus 3 256 frames: SJM 26, HD2 25BiasFX Ultralow Latency, all FX bypassed: SJM 15, HD2 19
BiasFX normal Latency, all FX bypassed: SJM 21, HD2 25
BiasFX Ultralow Latency, Amp, Drive and EQ on : SJM 15, HD2 20Bias Amp Low Latency: SJM 21 , HD2 25
I think there are a few conclusions to draw from this, assuming my testing is correct.
In low latencies, the SJM performs far better than the HD2, at 256 frames (if my desktop knowledge is anything to draw upon), whatever hidden safety buffers the HD2 uses seem to be bypassed, while their presence is most certainly felt at lower latencies.
Bias FX seems to add zero to negligible latency. Fruther testing with what often are latent fx (EQ, and an amp with a baked in impulse) do not seem to add to this latency. (if so, KILLER job with the DSP at Positive Grid!)
Bias Amp seems quite a bit more latent than Bias FX"
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@pipelineaudio Good info PLA - thanks! I was jamming yesterday with JamUp Pro on my iPhone w/ iRig HD as interface and latency was entirely tolerable. Btw since you are in Hawaii - here's a song you might know:
Pua Lena -
Oh man! That is OFFICAL Chalangalang
Where did you learn that?
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@pipelineaudio said in Does anybody gig with BIAS FX on iPad?:
Oh man! That is OFFICAL Chalangalang
Where did you learn that?
Heh - not sure what "chalangalang" is - but long ago I ran across a CD from Dancing Cat label called "Masters of Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar". I just loved this music - it has right kind of rhythm - connects you to the ocean and greater ocean out there in the stars. Can't play it to well but worked on few pieces.
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chalangalang is like "legit" for kika kila or kiho alu
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@pipelineaudio said in Does anybody gig with BIAS FX on iPad?:
chalangalang is like "legit" for kika kila or kiho alu
Well thanks - it is a never ending quest ;-)
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I don’t gig at this moment, but use almost daily BAmp and BFX to practice, study and create. My interface is iRig PRO DUO with an iPad Air 2 and I feel latency with default settings is absolut not a problem, for me it sounds perfect.
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@alderre I just got my stomp i/o last week. The issue is that the stomp doesn't work like the bluetooth rigs like blueboard. The midi control commands are "hard wired" into the stomp and cannot be altered, like you could in the blueboard app. I haven't seen a midi implementation chart for JamUp, not sure one exists, but I do know that JamUps cc's are different from the ones that the stomp sends.
I'm investigating two possible solutions:
- Bias FX has a midi learn function. This allows you to turn on "learn" for any parameter, the app will listen for the cc, and log it as the proper on/off command. Same goes for control ranges found on the expression pedal.
- I found an app similar to audiobus, only for ios midi. It's called Midiflow (NOT Midiflow for Audiobus). Works like audiobus, except patches midi data from one ios device or app to another. With an in-app add-on, you can convert midi cc's to send a different cc to the target app. For example: iRig Stomp i/o --> cc 25 to cc 30 --> JamUp Pro. Trick is figuring out what JamUp wants to see. I haven't tested yet, but Midiflow also has a midi monitor, which show cc's sent by device or app, i.e.: JamUp --> press desired effect, patch change, etc. --> midi cc revealed.
I expect to be able to utilize both of these scenarios once I've spent sufficient time playing around with them.
As for the stomp i/o itself: OUTSTANDING piece of hardware. Very solid (7.5 lbs.!) All metal. Footswitches are all momentary, not sp/st. Took a bit to figure out how the expression pedal works (make sure you calibrate it first, then the 'virtual switch' is a hard push in the pedal down position, which turns on the pedal). Only real knock at this point is the damn connection to your ios device is still using a mini-din connection, instead of straight USB. must be a reason, but personally I hate that plug.
And, BTW, good luck on delivery. It took over 2 months for me to get one. As a reference here, check the big on-line shops: Guitar Center, Musicians Friend, Amazon. All are saying 'not in stock'. I had to pull in a favor from a friend to get delivery.
In conclusion; nice hardware, should prove worth the effort to figure out how to use with non-Amplitube apps, appears solidly made and durable. I'd maybe wait until some of the larger sellers are showing availability (unless you know Eddie Van Halen :=)
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@alderre Thanks for the info. I had a sinking feeling IK would bork the MIDI implementation, I had held off on the BB due to concerns regarding the flexibility of its MIDI.... :rolling_eyes:
They tend to build stuff as if you are only ever going to use Amplitube. I have the BB and feel it is a pretty limited and it sounds like the I/O is not going to be programmable enough to be a general use device.
I really do not get why MIDI control device manufacturers (especially the guitar stuff) cannot seem to get that the power of this stuff is that it is programmable.
Let us know how it goes in terms of working around the hardwired values. Sounds like it still has some potential and it is really good that the interface seems solid.
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Ive spent the last year working with the philosophy that someone could just completely clean up in the mobile guitar industry just by following basic common sense DAW rules, and absolutely smoke the market
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@yjpmm04 Update: Midiflow will monitor the control changes from Stomp i/o, but not from JamUp. alderre, I don't view this as IK 'borking' their midi application on stomp. Quite the opposite: it's documented and accurate. If Positive Grid doesn't publish their midi implementation, as in JamUp, then they are the borkers. The stomp is just another midi controller. If I knew what JamUp was looking for, cc-wise, I'd be able to program for it.
Does anybody know if JamUp's control codes are available?
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I mean, I want to type about a 60 page rant here. I'm so frustrated at this point, I'm not going to bother and I don't want to make any enemies, but honestly, if you were ever wondering about the history of reaper, and why it was created, THIS is the exact same situation a lot of us DAW users were facing with the existing DAWs out there.
There are COLOSSAL missteps going on in so many areas and on so many levels, and the end user/buyer end of the market just isn't being vocal enough.
The good news is that this can ALL be fixed, but its going to take a consumer advocate in at least one of these companies to make it happen. If and when it does happen, the competitors will be doing all manner of craziness, like flying the advocate to places to offer a nice chunk of money to shut up, attacking said company, trying to outspend the new paradigm in the press to hold on to the dinosaurs, making tiny piecemeal fixes to their existing paradigm (lots of times in the music market, if you can say "well, its not actually good, in anyway, but its kind of good enough" that's often enough for the customers and progress stops).
I always find that sunlight is the best disinfectant, and when bad ideas are exposed, they flake up and float away like mildew in the Sonoran sun
Find an advocate and make sure the companies know they need one
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@pipelineaudio Alright man - first things first. I never used a Reaper - herad good things about it. Should I try it ? I am very used to Tracktion and for simple jobs like chopping up rehearsal or jam material into tracks for friends or bandmates - it works really well. How is Reaper connected to gigging with iPad/BIAS FX?
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Its not really, its just that the reaper live pedalboard project grew out of originally trying to do it all on ios but desiring the switching, routing and plugin power of vst. For the test I was just saying try it in any other daw to see if you have the same problems, but if it is still doing dpc spikes, I'd fix that first. In terms of editing, that's kind of what reaper was made for, as the existing daws at the time were quite slow at it....not sure how it compares to traktion in that regard and this isnt an ad for reaper, just a suggestion to see if any other daw handles your issue differently
ETA: If you are talking about what I said in my last post, it was just a comparison, how often these products are missing the needs of the actual users, and sometimes its hard to get them on a track that addresses first of all the basic needs of the target market, and then the specific desires of the target market....
For all I know the market of PG users today are not only the original intended market of PG, but its expanded a lot as the company grew or I could be totally misreading the needs of these particular users, and really only speaking about a few....hard to tell
